trying to do the right thing, not a politician, you would hope you would raise taxes on certain forms of energy, which is good for the environment. >> rose: a carbon tax. >> some form of carbon tax, federal gas tax is going up a bit. something like that. you can get another few hundred billion a year out of that. that gets you up to 3.5. the last trillion is where the rubber meets the road. i think all of that, maybe dems and republicans wouldn't automatically admit they would be willing to do it but all of that is within the realm of reason. the last trillion is the hard part. because then you're making very tough choices about which specific taxes to raise versus which specific spending cuts. >> rose: what choices would you recommend the country make. >> in my opinion and i do work some with the congressional budget office, although they are nonpartisan, this is just my opinion. i would make four or five big choices. i would, indeed, put up some sort of carbon tax. and for the sake of call all of us and future generation. >> rose: the congress went crazy over cap and trade. >> cap and trade i